Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?


 

I’m curious what hints Voiceover users have for inputting punctuation without FlickType. Having to go to the numbers keyboard screen to access punctuation is not very efficient. Are there any keyboard settings which make punctuation input quicker?

 

I’m also curious how much vision those using the Direct Touch keyboard setting have. Are you using Voiceover? My understanding of direct touch was that you had to tap on the correct letter to get good output.

 

Finally, is there a way when using Slide to type also known as Quick path to have the letters spoken by Voiceover as you quickly slide your finger around the keyboard? I expect not since this is not really an accessibility setting.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Alan Lemly

 

From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:20 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?

 

Use direct touch for long words and slide to type for shorter ones. This way, auto correct is pretty accurate for fixing shorter and slide to type, normally gets longer words right with me.of course your milage may vary. 



On 16 Sep 2021, at 23:50, Gina Grunden <runemagick115@...> wrote:



I quite like the Direct Touch type myself. I’ve not played with Slide to Type however.

 

 

Gina

 

From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:29 AM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?

 



Hi all 

 

There are always the  direct touch typing and slide to type. Combined these together, and typing on the iPhone isn't bad. Of coarse the experience is nothing compared to FlickType but anything is better than nothing. Plus the original Fleksy is still around in the App Store.

 

  




On 16 Sep 2021, at 03:03, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:



Hi Chuck,

 

Thanks for confirming my understanding of the inability to port apps to another device when they are no longer available in the App Store. I suspect we won’t have any luck convincing Kosta to put anything in the App Store since I believe he is suing Apple over their latest series 7 watch keyboard. But I tend to be a glass half empty sort of guy regarding such things.

 

At any rate, I’m beginning to try other on screen keyboard typing methods since I realize that my days with FlickType are numbered. I downloaded Microsoft SwiftKey today and will give it a try. It was hard in the past when trying slide to type and other keyboard features since they all paled in comparison to FlickType but my perspective has now changed.

 

Alan

 

From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Dean
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 6:24 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?

 

Hello Alan, 

Out of  curiosity I erased an old iPhone 6S and tried to download FlickType from the clout, and also from my old Mac. Unfortunately, you are right, it could not download any app that is no longer in the app store. ️  

It looks like our days of FlickType typing are numbered... Unless we can convince Kosta to put FlickType classic beck in the app store., if it works with iOS 15. 

 

Chuck  (mobile)

Pleez x cuze enny tie ping or spelin air ores.

 





On Sep 15, 2021, at 12:39 PM, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:



Hi Eileen,

 

I just updated my SE 2020 to iOS 14.8 and am happy to report that my flicktype keyboard is still working just fine. I don't believe that will be the case with iOS 15 so I will be in no hurry to upgrade to it.

 

A few years back, you could use iTunes to download apps to your local computer and carry them forward to a new device. However, Apple changed that approach as they moved more to cloud based orientation and now all apps transferred to a new device must come from the App Store. The names of your installed apps do transfer to the new device as do their installed screen locations but the app itself must download from the App Store and if it's no longer there, you're out of luck. I experienced this with a money reader app that I had on an old device that was no longer in the App Store when I upgraded to my iPhone SE 2020 so that app is no longer on my device.

 

Alan 

 

with Outlook for iOS


From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Eileen Misrahi <eileen.misrahi@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 1:58:32 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?

 

Hi Alan and All,

I’m using a 6S, with 14.8. I have been able to use FlickType in FB to post on a time line and in the Message app to send a text message. I believe you are correct Alan that the apps are stored in the cloud and not in iTunes. At one point, I thought you could setup a new iPhone from the old one,  but I’m not 100% sure about that.

Best,
Eileen







Luke Davis
 

On Sep 16, Alan Lemly wrote:

I’m also curious how much vision those using the Direct Touch keyboard setting have. Are you using Voiceover? My understanding of direct touch was that you
had to tap on the correct letter to get good output.
Yes and know. Vision is not a factor.
You can tap very quickly on the right letter, and it will be typed. However if you linger for an instant, it just identifies the letter without typing it.

So if you get the letter positions right the majority of the time, this can be a very efficient way of typing.
If you put your finger on the keyboard and move it around to find a letter and then lift it, the letter will not be typed. However if your position of lifting is accurate, you can tap once and will get that letter.
It is something of a hybrid of standard and touch typing.

It lives up to its name of "direct touch", since touching on a letter, then immediately lifting your finger, will result in the letter being typed. That is the same experience as a non-Voiceover user has, which is what direct touch areas are all about.
However, if your finger stays on the letter, slides to another one, or does anything other than immediately lift, no letter is typed and the letter is just announced.

It's easy enough to rotor to typing mode and give it a shot--it's worth trying.

Luke


 

Luke,

I expect if I could tap very quickly on the right letter using direct touch, I would never have had a need for FlickType. I've been using a computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10% of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be surprised. I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without vision. That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I don't have.

Alan Lemly

-----Original Message-----
From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 6:24 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?

On Sep 16, Alan Lemly wrote:

I’m also curious how much vision those using the Direct Touch keyboard
setting have. Are you using Voiceover? My understanding of direct touch was that you had to tap on the correct letter to get good output.
Yes and know. Vision is not a factor.
You can tap very quickly on the right letter, and it will be typed.
However if you linger for an instant, it just identifies the letter without typing it.

So if you get the letter positions right the majority of the time, this can be a very efficient way of typing.
If you put your finger on the keyboard and move it around to find a letter and then lift it, the letter will not be typed. However if your position of lifting is accurate, you can tap once and will get that letter.
It is something of a hybrid of standard and touch typing.

It lives up to its name of "direct touch", since touching on a letter, then immediately lifting your finger, will result in the letter being typed. That is the same experience as a non-Voiceover user has, which is what direct touch areas are all about.
However, if your finger stays on the letter, slides to another one, or does anything other than immediately lift, no letter is typed and the letter is just announced.

It's easy enough to rotor to typing mode and give it a shot--it's worth trying.

Luke


Luke Davis
 

Alan Lemly wrote:

computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10% of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be surprised. I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without vision. That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I don't have.
Alan, I didn't intend to suggest that I did. :)
I simply explained what direct touch typing was, and how it could be effective. I did not mean to imply that I was effective with it.
In fact I usually use a combination of touch typing, dictation, and Flicktype.

However, for purposes of this response, I typed the following sentence:

This is a test of my ability to type on this touch keyboard.

Using direct touch typing on the same model phone that you are using.
I made 11 errors total, the 11th of which was because I thought I had selected the punctuation keyboard to enter the closing period, but was still on the letters keyboard so hit a Z instead. I probably wouldn't make that mistake normally, so I consider myself to have made 10 realistic errors.
13 words, 60 characters, and 10 errors, is an approximate 16.7% error rate, or getting approximately 83.3% of the letters correct by your measure.
That seems positive, but that much correction would be annoying in normal use.

I then did the same sentence again, this time in touch typing mode, and made only one error, in what felt like the same length of time.

My conclusion is that, for me, touch typing is better. While I could probably get used to direct touch typing, and maybe even get better at it, I'm glad I don't have to.

Luke


 

Luke,

Thanks so much for the additional details about your direct touch experience. I'm impressed with your error rate while using direct touch. I don't believe I'd ever only make 11 errors when direct touching a 60 plus character sentence. It's encouraging to learn that others are successfully using direct touch so I'll keep a positive attitude about it and keep practicing with what is available. I especially intend to practice slide to type. I really wish it were possible to have a setting that would allow VoiceOver to quickly speak each letter as your finger is sliding over it that would enable those of us using our ears to stop on the correct letter before moving to the next one. I expect this might be too difficult to implement or take more resources than currently available in these devices.

I very much appreciate your helpful replies and happy typing.

Alan Lemly 

with Outlook for iOS


From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Luke Davis <newanswertech@...>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 11:15:27 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?
 
Alan Lemly wrote:

> computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10%
> of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be
> surprised.  I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping
> on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without
> vision.  That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I
> don't have.

Alan, I didn't intend to suggest that I did. :)
I simply explained what direct touch typing was, and how it could be
effective. I did not mean to imply that I was effective with it.
In fact I usually use a combination of touch typing, dictation, and Flicktype.

However, for purposes of this response, I typed the following sentence:

This is a test of my ability to type on this touch keyboard.

Using direct touch typing on the same model phone that you are using.
I made 11 errors total, the 11th of which was because I thought I had
selected the punctuation keyboard to enter the closing period, but was
still on the letters keyboard so hit a Z instead. I probably wouldn't make
that mistake normally, so I consider myself to have made 10 realistic
errors.
13 words, 60 characters, and 10 errors, is an approximate 16.7% error
rate, or getting approximately 83.3% of the letters correct by your
measure.
That seems positive, but that much correction would be annoying in normal
use.

I then did the same sentence again, this time in touch typing mode, and
made only one error, in what felt like the same length of time.

My conclusion is that, for me, touch typing is better. While I could
probably get used to direct touch typing, and maybe even get better at it,
I'm glad I don't have to.

Luke







Chuck Dean
 

Hello Ellen,
I believe that slide type is a little bit like Fliktype, we are only supposed to approximate the letter, and then move to the next one. My experience is that once you select the first letter and you get the pass-through sound, then you can quickly move to the general area where the other letters are, and you will hear suggestions of what word it things you are trying to type.
I’ve been trying to slide type a little bit, and I think with some extra practice, it might be usable. Go

Chuck  (mobile)
Pleez x cuze enny tie ping or spelin air ores.


On Sep 18, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:


Luke,

Thanks so much for the additional details about your direct touch experience. I'm impressed with your error rate while using direct touch. I don't believe I'd ever only make 11 errors when direct touching a 60 plus character sentence. It's encouraging to learn that others are successfully using direct touch so I'll keep a positive attitude about it and keep practicing with what is available. I especially intend to practice slide to type. I really wish it were possible to have a setting that would allow VoiceOver to quickly speak each letter as your finger is sliding over it that would enable those of us using our ears to stop on the correct letter before moving to the next one. I expect this might be too difficult to implement or take more resources than currently available in these devices.

I very much appreciate your helpful replies and happy typing.

Alan Lemly 

with Outlook for iOS

From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Luke Davis <newanswertech@...>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 11:15:27 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?
 
Alan Lemly wrote:

> computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10%
> of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be
> surprised.  I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping
> on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without
> vision.  That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I
> don't have.

Alan, I didn't intend to suggest that I did. :)
I simply explained what direct touch typing was, and how it could be
effective. I did not mean to imply that I was effective with it.
In fact I usually use a combination of touch typing, dictation, and Flicktype.

However, for purposes of this response, I typed the following sentence:

This is a test of my ability to type on this touch keyboard.

Using direct touch typing on the same model phone that you are using.
I made 11 errors total, the 11th of which was because I thought I had
selected the punctuation keyboard to enter the closing period, but was
still on the letters keyboard so hit a Z instead. I probably wouldn't make
that mistake normally, so I consider myself to have made 10 realistic
errors.
13 words, 60 characters, and 10 errors, is an approximate 16.7% error
rate, or getting approximately 83.3% of the letters correct by your
measure.
That seems positive, but that much correction would be annoying in normal
use.

I then did the same sentence again, this time in touch typing mode, and
made only one error, in what felt like the same length of time.

My conclusion is that, for me, touch typing is better. While I could
probably get used to direct touch typing, and maybe even get better at it,
I'm glad I don't have to.

Luke







Luke Davis
 

Alan Lemly wrote:

possible to have a setting that would allow VoiceOver to quickly speak each letter as your finger is sliding over it that would enable those of us using our
ears to stop on the correct letter before moving to the next one.
Isn't that what touch typing already does?
Or do you mean to have that, along with the slide to type word completion?

If so, you might be able to achieve something like it with a long enough slide to type delay set.

Luke


 

Luke,

I meant having Voiceover speak the character while sliding over the letters
while using slide to type. I believe the slide to type delay set only
affects the delay before slide to type is activated when resting your finger
on a key. I don't believe slide to type is currently designed to provide any
audio feedback while your finger is sliding among the characters in the
words being typed.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Luke Davis
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 10:25 PM
To: hello@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question
was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?

Alan Lemly wrote:

possible to have a setting that would allow VoiceOver to quickly speak
each letter as your finger is sliding over it that would enable those of
us using our ears to stop on the correct letter before moving to the next
one.

Isn't that what touch typing already does?
Or do you mean to have that, along with the slide to type word completion?

If so, you might be able to achieve something like it with a long enough
slide to type delay set.

Luke