Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?
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I’m curious what hints Voiceover users have for inputting punctuation without FlickType. Having to go to the numbers keyboard screen to access punctuation is not very efficient. Are there any keyboard settings which make punctuation input quicker?
I’m also curious how much vision those using the Direct Touch keyboard setting have. Are you using Voiceover? My understanding of direct touch was that you had to tap on the correct letter to get good output.
Finally, is there a way when using Slide to type also known as Quick path to have the letters spoken by Voiceover as you quickly slide your finger around the keyboard? I expect not since this is not really an accessibility setting.
Thanks for any help.
Alan Lemly
From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:20 PM To: hello@flicktype.groups.io Subject: Re: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8?
Use direct touch for long words and slide to type for shorter ones. This way, auto correct is pretty accurate for fixing shorter and slide to type, normally gets longer words right with me.of course your milage may vary.
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Luke Davis
On Sep 16, Alan Lemly wrote:
I’m also curious how much vision those using the Direct Touch keyboard setting have. Are you using Voiceover? My understanding of direct touch was that youYes and know. Vision is not a factor. You can tap very quickly on the right letter, and it will be typed. However if you linger for an instant, it just identifies the letter without typing it. So if you get the letter positions right the majority of the time, this can be a very efficient way of typing. If you put your finger on the keyboard and move it around to find a letter and then lift it, the letter will not be typed. However if your position of lifting is accurate, you can tap once and will get that letter. It is something of a hybrid of standard and touch typing. It lives up to its name of "direct touch", since touching on a letter, then immediately lifting your finger, will result in the letter being typed. That is the same experience as a non-Voiceover user has, which is what direct touch areas are all about. However, if your finger stays on the letter, slides to another one, or does anything other than immediately lift, no letter is typed and the letter is just announced. It's easy enough to rotor to typing mode and give it a shot--it's worth trying. Luke
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Luke,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I expect if I could tap very quickly on the right letter using direct touch, I would never have had a need for FlickType. I've been using a computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10% of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be surprised. I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without vision. That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I don't have. Alan Lemly
-----Original Message-----
From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 6:24 PM To: hello@flicktype.groups.io Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8? On Sep 16, Alan Lemly wrote: I’m also curious how much vision those using the Direct Touch keyboardYes and know. Vision is not a factor. You can tap very quickly on the right letter, and it will be typed. However if you linger for an instant, it just identifies the letter without typing it. So if you get the letter positions right the majority of the time, this can be a very efficient way of typing. If you put your finger on the keyboard and move it around to find a letter and then lift it, the letter will not be typed. However if your position of lifting is accurate, you can tap once and will get that letter. It is something of a hybrid of standard and touch typing. It lives up to its name of "direct touch", since touching on a letter, then immediately lifting your finger, will result in the letter being typed. That is the same experience as a non-Voiceover user has, which is what direct touch areas are all about. However, if your finger stays on the letter, slides to another one, or does anything other than immediately lift, no letter is typed and the letter is just announced. It's easy enough to rotor to typing mode and give it a shot--it's worth trying. Luke
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Luke Davis
Alan Lemly wrote:
computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10% of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be surprised. I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without vision. That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I don't have.Alan, I didn't intend to suggest that I did. :) I simply explained what direct touch typing was, and how it could be effective. I did not mean to imply that I was effective with it. In fact I usually use a combination of touch typing, dictation, and Flicktype. However, for purposes of this response, I typed the following sentence: This is a test of my ability to type on this touch keyboard. Using direct touch typing on the same model phone that you are using. I made 11 errors total, the 11th of which was because I thought I had selected the punctuation keyboard to enter the closing period, but was still on the letters keyboard so hit a Z instead. I probably wouldn't make that mistake normally, so I consider myself to have made 10 realistic errors. 13 words, 60 characters, and 10 errors, is an approximate 16.7% error rate, or getting approximately 83.3% of the letters correct by your measure. That seems positive, but that much correction would be annoying in normal use. I then did the same sentence again, this time in touch typing mode, and made only one error, in what felt like the same length of time. My conclusion is that, for me, touch typing is better. While I could probably get used to direct touch typing, and maybe even get better at it, I'm glad I don't have to. Luke
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Luke,
Thanks so much for the additional details about your direct touch experience. I'm impressed with your error rate while using direct touch. I don't believe I'd ever only make 11 errors when direct touching a 60 plus character sentence. It's encouraging
to learn that others are successfully using direct touch so I'll keep a positive attitude about it and keep practicing with what is available. I especially intend to practice slide to type. I really wish it were possible to have a setting that would allow
VoiceOver to quickly speak each letter as your finger is sliding over it that would enable those of us using our ears to stop on the correct letter before moving to the next one. I expect this might be too difficult to implement or take more resources than
currently available in these devices.
I very much appreciate your helpful replies and happy typing.
Alan Lemly
with
Outlook for iOS
From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Luke Davis <newanswertech@...>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 11:15:27 PM To: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8? Alan Lemly wrote:
> computer keyboard since 1981 and my iPhone since 2013 but if I get 10% > of the letters correct when trying direct touch on my SE 2020, I'd be > surprised. I'd be interested to hear what sort of screen you're tapping > on to tap the correct letter most of the time using direct touch without > vision. That sounds like some sort of miracle muscle memory which I > don't have. Alan, I didn't intend to suggest that I did. :) I simply explained what direct touch typing was, and how it could be effective. I did not mean to imply that I was effective with it. In fact I usually use a combination of touch typing, dictation, and Flicktype. However, for purposes of this response, I typed the following sentence: This is a test of my ability to type on this touch keyboard. Using direct touch typing on the same model phone that you are using. I made 11 errors total, the 11th of which was because I thought I had selected the punctuation keyboard to enter the closing period, but was still on the letters keyboard so hit a Z instead. I probably wouldn't make that mistake normally, so I consider myself to have made 10 realistic errors. 13 words, 60 characters, and 10 errors, is an approximate 16.7% error rate, or getting approximately 83.3% of the letters correct by your measure. That seems positive, but that much correction would be annoying in normal use. I then did the same sentence again, this time in touch typing mode, and made only one error, in what felt like the same length of time. My conclusion is that, for me, touch typing is better. While I could probably get used to direct touch typing, and maybe even get better at it, I'm glad I don't have to. Luke
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Chuck Dean
Hello Ellen, I believe that slide type is a little bit like Fliktype, we are only supposed to approximate the letter, and then move to the next one. My experience is that once you select the first letter and you get the pass-through sound, then you can quickly move to the general area where the other letters are, and you will hear suggestions of what word it things you are trying to type. I’ve been trying to slide type a little bit, and I think with some extra practice, it might be usable. Go Chuck (mobile) Pleez x cuze enny tie ping or spelin air ores.
On Sep 18, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Alan Lemly <walemly@...> wrote:
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Luke Davis
Alan Lemly wrote:
possible to have a setting that would allow VoiceOver to quickly speak each letter as your finger is sliding over it that would enable those of us using ourIsn't that what touch typing already does? Or do you mean to have that, along with the slide to type word completion? If so, you might be able to achieve something like it with a long enough slide to type delay set. Luke
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Luke,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I meant having Voiceover speak the character while sliding over the letters while using slide to type. I believe the slide to type delay set only affects the delay before slide to type is activated when resting your finger on a key. I don't believe slide to type is currently designed to provide any audio feedback while your finger is sliding among the characters in the words being typed. Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: hello@flicktype.groups.io <hello@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 10:25 PM To: hello@flicktype.groups.io Subject: Re: Punctuation Voiceover hints needed and Direct Touch question was RE: [FlickType] Have any FlickType keyboard users upgraded to iOS 14.8? Alan Lemly wrote: possible to have a setting that would allow VoiceOver to quickly speakus using our ears to stop on the correct letter before moving to the next one. Isn't that what touch typing already does? Or do you mean to have that, along with the slide to type word completion? If so, you might be able to achieve something like it with a long enough slide to type delay set. Luke
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