Topics

Answer to Kosta's questions and possible creation of a poll/survey questionnaire Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69

Chanelle Allen
 




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle

On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Michael Maslo
 

Hello kosta I do not use the text replacements much if at all. I rarely use the apple keyboard outside for the at sign or symbols. I like the magic tap and how easy it is to switch back and forth to the keyboards. I never use the dictate feature for my typing is now fast enough to not making it needed.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 09:42, <Chanelle Allen> wrote:




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle
On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Chuck Dean
 


I use the text replacement all the time. I have them set up so I can insert my name, address, city, state, and zip code for filling in forms. I also use them to input difficult words to spell, and proper names. 

And, of course, entering the most used emoji...😀😊😄😃☺️😀😎 


Chuck

On May 21, 2018, at 8:46 AM, Michael Maslo <michaelmaslo04@...> wrote:

Hello kosta I do not use the text replacements much if at all. I rarely use the apple keyboard outside for the at sign or symbols. I like the magic tap and how easy it is to switch back and forth to the keyboards. I never use the dictate feature for my typing is now fast enough to not making it needed.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 09:42, <Chanelle Allen> wrote:




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle
On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



David Nason
 

Likewise, I use text replacement all the time, its a great feature. I use it for filling in forms like Chuck has described, but also for lots of common words and phrases like tomorrow, yesterday, this evening etc etc It really speeds things up. 
In addition, thanks to Chuck's suggestion, I now have some emoji set up too. 

That all said, when typing with FlickType, I probably don't feel quite the same need for text replacements. I probably would use them if they were there though, I may need to try them for a while to be sure! 

I do really want convenient access to emoji though. So if that's through text replacement, then I definitely do want the feature. 

Dave



On 21 May 2018, at 16:52, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


I use the text replacement all the time. I have them set up so I can insert my name, address, city, state, and zip code for filling in forms. I also use them to input difficult words to spell, and proper names. 

And, of course, entering the most used emoji...😀😊😄😃☺️😀😎 


Chuck

On May 21, 2018, at 8:46 AM, Michael Maslo <michaelmaslo04@...> wrote:

Hello kosta I do not use the text replacements much if at all. I rarely use the apple keyboard outside for the at sign or symbols. I like the magic tap and how easy it is to switch back and forth to the keyboards. I never use the dictate feature for my typing is now fast enough to not making it needed.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 09:42, <Chanelle Allen> wrote:




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle
On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Chuck Dean
 


I was playing with Fleksy yesterday. And I could enter text replacements by simply typing my shortcut and flicking down once or twice. 

I am looking forward to when FlickType will be able to enter replacements.    


Chuck

On May 21, 2018, at 9:07 AM, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

Likewise, I use text replacement all the time, its a great feature. I use it for filling in forms like Chuck has described, but also for lots of common words and phrases like tomorrow, yesterday, this evening etc etc It really speeds things up. 
In addition, thanks to Chuck's suggestion, I now have some emoji set up too. 

That all said, when typing with FlickType, I probably don't feel quite the same need for text replacements. I probably would use them if they were there though, I may need to try them for a while to be sure! 

I do really want convenient access to emoji though. So if that's through text replacement, then I definitely do want the feature. 

Dave



On 21 May 2018, at 16:52, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


I use the text replacement all the time. I have them set up so I can insert my name, address, city, state, and zip code for filling in forms. I also use them to input difficult words to spell, and proper names. 

And, of course, entering the most used emoji...😀😊😄😃☺️😀😎 


Chuck

On May 21, 2018, at 8:46 AM, Michael Maslo <michaelmaslo04@...> wrote:

Hello kosta I do not use the text replacements much if at all. I rarely use the apple keyboard outside for the at sign or symbols. I like the magic tap and how easy it is to switch back and forth to the keyboards. I never use the dictate feature for my typing is now fast enough to not making it needed.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 09:42, <Chanelle Allen> wrote:




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle
On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Michael Maslo
 

Hello, if you are able to type quickly, do you still see the need of shirt cuts? I can type real fast with flick type now so I was wondering if the shirt cuts make that much of a difference. The emotes I can understand how it would be helpful. Thanks.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 11:07, <David Nason> wrote:

Likewise, I use text replacement all the time, its a great feature. I use it for filling in forms like Chuck has described, but also for lots of common words and phrases like tomorrow, yesterday, this evening etc etc It really speeds things up. 
In addition, thanks to Chuck's suggestion, I now have some emoji set up too. 

That all said, when typing with FlickType, I probably don't feel quite the same need for text replacements. I probably would use them if they were there though, I may need to try them for a while to be sure! 

I do really want convenient access to emoji though. So if that's through text replacement, then I definitely do want the feature. 

Dave



On 21 May 2018, at 16:52, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


I use the text replacement all the time. I have them set up so I can insert my name, address, city, state, and zip code for filling in forms. I also use them to input difficult words to spell, and proper names. 

And, of course, entering the most used emoji...😀😊😄😃☺️😀😎 


Chuck

On May 21, 2018, at 8:46 AM, Michael Maslo <michaelmaslo04@...> wrote:

Hello kosta I do not use the text replacements much if at all. I rarely use the apple keyboard outside for the at sign or symbols. I like the magic tap and how easy it is to switch back and forth to the keyboards. I never use the dictate feature for my typing is now fast enough to not making it needed.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 09:42, <Chanelle Allen> wrote:




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle
On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Chuck Dean
 


Hi David, yes, the shortcuts are much faster. For example, I can enter my entire email address with three taps on the keyboard... Like this... 

On May 21, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Michael Maslo <michaelmaslo04@...> wrote:

Hello, if you are able to type quickly, do you still see the need of shirt cuts? I can type real fast with flick type now so I was wondering if the shirt cuts make that much of a difference. The emotes I can understand how it would be helpful. Thanks.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 11:07, <David Nason> wrote:

Likewise, I use text replacement all the time, its a great feature. I use it for filling in forms like Chuck has described, but also for lots of common words and phrases like tomorrow, yesterday, this evening etc etc It really speeds things up. 
In addition, thanks to Chuck's suggestion, I now have some emoji set up too. 

That all said, when typing with FlickType, I probably don't feel quite the same need for text replacements. I probably would use them if they were there though, I may need to try them for a while to be sure! 

I do really want convenient access to emoji though. So if that's through text replacement, then I definitely do want the feature. 

Dave



On 21 May 2018, at 16:52, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


I use the text replacement all the time. I have them set up so I can insert my name, address, city, state, and zip code for filling in forms. I also use them to input difficult words to spell, and proper names. 

And, of course, entering the most used emoji...😀😊😄😃☺️😀😎 


Chuck

On May 21, 2018, at 8:46 AM, Michael Maslo <michaelmaslo04@...> wrote:

Hello kosta I do not use the text replacements much if at all. I rarely use the apple keyboard outside for the at sign or symbols. I like the magic tap and how easy it is to switch back and forth to the keyboards. I never use the dictate feature for my typing is now fast enough to not making it needed.

Sincerely,, mike 


On May 21, 2018 at 09:42, <Chanelle Allen> wrote:




Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. Since finding emojis is 
a time-consumingOn experience, I seldom utilize 
the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to
 command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is ending up all over the place. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the email message below what I am typing. Hi Kosta,I will attempt to answer your questions about iOS keyboard usage. Would it be helpful for you to create a poll or survey requesting information from us and the beta group 
that would be most informative to the further development of the FlickType keyboard and manual typing? These discussions are great, and we do build off of one another, but having quantitative data based upon yes/no, agree/disagree statements, rating scale, and other similar types of closed questions may provide further elucidation. Currently, I mainly use the iOS keyboard for editing and reviewing text after typing with FlickType. In my experience, the magic tap gesture for switching to the iOS keyboard is more reliable than the three finger flick down at keeping my place in a text area. Also, switching to the iOS keyboard is great for quickly finding the return key to perform a search or advancing to the next field. The other instance in which I use the iOS keyboard occurs if I need to type something quickly with braille screen input, which is a rotor setting. Since testing FlickType I rarely use braille screen input, and my desire is to continue the trend. If I am already reading something with my braille display and need to send off an email or text, I will type on the braille keyboard, but I do not turn the display on for the singular purpose of writing. I am wondering if I need to use my braille display to proofread my FlickType messages since extra spaces are often inserted. Since finding emojis is a time-consuming experience, I seldom utilize the emoji keyboard and turned it off when FlickType became a keyboard. Until recently, I did not use text replacement. Since Chuck kindly explained how to make text replacements for emojis , I might create a few additional shortcuts such as my email address. In the past, text replacement was frustrating because I couldn't dismiss the replacement when it was not wanted. Now, I know what I am doing. I do not use dictation or typing predictions. On the rare occasions when I do dictate a short message, the magic tap gesture is my go-to command. Yesterday, I said that FlickType was great for text editing. Today, the slight annoyances I was dealing with have intensified--maybe since I am experimenting with more rigorous FlickType editing. Sometimes, when attempting to perform the two finger flick in either direction, I accidentally insert a character or delete a word. Also, I have noticed that switching between modes automatically inserts a space, so I must remember not to flick right after manually typing a word. When I do forget and go back to delete the extra space or just edit in general, my cursor is sometimes ending up all over the place. I have had to repeatedly insert the new line breaks that traditionally separate a reply from the original message. Interestingly, in the FlickType keyboard, I have access to the beginning of the email message below what I am typing. Perhaps going to the actions rotor and activating reply on Kosta's message, which is somewhere in the middle of the thread explains this behavior. Normally, I find the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Also when I press too hard on the upper half of my keyboard, occasionally, VoiceOver starts reading. I think that my typing is more sloppy because I am not holding my phone in the usual way. These are just some very recent observations as I type this message. Chanelle
On May 20, 2018, at 10:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>