Date   

Re: Build 69

Ed Worrell
 

Hey Kosta

I remember the original Fleksy keyboard extension using enter to activate the search function in search boxes. Was this action developed by the Fleksy development team? I feel that the two finger double tap "Magic Tap" would be the best option for quickly changing keyboard modes. I like this as there really isn't any other gesture that could be inadvertently triggered at this point. There would not be any accidental mode switches. As far as the emojs are concerned I would love to see this in the future. I however don't like the touch typing method for activating the character's. This is the way iOS handled it. I correctly currently find myself avoiding the emoji keyboard as it is such a chore to find and activate the character I am looking for. If there was a way to simplify this in the future that would be great.

Again, thank you for the quick build updates, and keep up the great work!

Ed

On May 20, 2018, at 10:56 AM, FlickType <@FlickType> wrote:

Chuck: after dismissing and then returning to edit, the cursor should be where you expect it to be - if it isn't then that's a bug that will be fixed. There is another known issue when you go back to edit something and not being able to move the cursor past the current sentence boundary, but this issue is the same regardless of whether you previously dismissed the keyboard or switched to the iOS one, and could also be addressed in the future although it's not trivial.

Two finger tap and hold to switch to iOS is probably at the top of my list of gestures for that action.

Programmatically triggering the action button to send / search / go would be super nice, but unfortunately it's not possible today. iOS seems to have a very deliberate separation of concerns between the keyboard and the app, and being able to hit any application buttons rests solely on the app side, at least for 3rd-party developers. But hey, you never know. iOS 12 is right around the corner, and I can imagine that the above architectural decision made many years ago might be reconsidered at some point.

On a non-fullscreen version of the keyboard: this is probably doable, but currently presents many challenges due to the system VoiceOver announcements interfering with the FlickType announcements. You might remember that from the first builds of the manual typing. This is not the case when the keyboard is fullscreen, simply because in that case FlickType does not change the contents of the underlying textfield until you dismiss it or switch to the next keyboard, so there are no system VoiceOver announcements to worry about. And we can't make FlickType only cover part of the screen with this workaround behavior, because then you'd notice that the text in the textfield is empty or entirely different from what FlickType is reporting, until you dismiss it or switch to the next keyboard. If you are willing to disable your VoiceOver word typing feedback, this could work, but I think most people would rather not have to change their VoiceOver settings. Perhaps when manual mode is fully developed we can revisit that, since you'd very rarely need to use the iOS keyboard in that case, and hence you might be ok with changing the typing feedback. There's also another possible workaround here, where as soon as you touch away from the half screen FlickType keyboard, we would immediately commit all changes to the textfield. But all this is opening a whole world of possible issues so for now we'll stick with the full screen mode until more things are in place and the full screen mode is more mature.

On having some common symbols and perhaps numbers above the letters, this is definitely something I'm considering and may add soon.

On shaking to perform an action: I'd like to first exhaust all possible touch based gestures but it's an interesting one for less common actions.

On a gesture for new line: this could be a two finger flick down, but you might have noticed that we so far have not assigned the two finger up or down to any action. This is because we might want those two complementary gestures to perform something that is more of a cycling option, such as changing between letters symbols and emoji, or even something else entirely. Assigning one direction, down, to a new line might make it confusing when the opposite gesture does something entirely different. We are, however, exploring possible gestures to directly enter a new line, including some flick and hold gestures, and I'm still open to using the two finger flick down for that if we don't have another use for that gesture.

Kosta



Re: Build 69

Salman Haider
 

Kosta,
Just wondering, is there a reason why a single finger gesture to
switch to the iOS keyboard is not being considered? I was personally
finding it a lot easier to switch to the iOS keyboard, not only for
manual text entry, but also to perform an action with the text I had
typed (like sending it), all using one hand. With the implementation
of the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard, it has become
impossible to be able to do that.
My suggestion was, a one finger sflick down and hold (which in the
main app invokes the menu) or a one finger flick up and hold (which I
do not believe has been used anywhere yet).

For adding a new line, a one finger swipe right and hold could be a possibility.

Interested in knowing your comments.

Salman

On 5/20/18, FlickType <@FlickType> wrote:
Chuck: after dismissing and then returning to edit, the cursor should be
where you expect it to be - if it isn't then that's a bug that will be
fixed. There is another known issue when you go back to edit something and
not being able to move the cursor past the current sentence boundary, but
this issue is the same regardless of whether you previously dismissed the
keyboard or switched to the iOS one, and could also be addressed in the
future although it's not trivial.

Two finger tap and hold to switch to iOS is probably at the top of my list
of gestures for that action.

Programmatically triggering the action button to send / search / go would be
super nice, but unfortunately it's not possible today. iOS seems to have a
very deliberate separation of concerns between the keyboard and the app, and
being able to hit any application buttons rests solely on the app side, at
least for 3rd-party developers. But hey, you never know. iOS 12 is right
around the corner, and I can imagine that the above architectural decision
made many years ago might be reconsidered at some point.

On a non-fullscreen version of the keyboard: this is probably doable, but
currently presents many challenges due to the system VoiceOver announcements
interfering with the FlickType announcements. You might remember that from
the first builds of the manual typing. This is not the case when the
keyboard is fullscreen, simply because in that case FlickType does not
change the contents of the underlying textfield until you dismiss it or
switch to the next keyboard, so there are no system VoiceOver announcements
to worry about. And we can't make FlickType only cover part of the screen
with this workaround behavior, because then you'd notice that the text in
the textfield is empty or entirely different from what FlickType is
reporting, until you dismiss it or switch to the next keyboard. If you are
willing to disable your VoiceOver word typing feedback, this could work, but
I think most people would rather not have to change their VoiceOver
settings. Perhaps when manual mode is fully developed we can revisit that,
since you'd very rarely need to use the iOS keyboard in that case, and hence
you might be ok with changing the typing feedback. There's also another
possible workaround here, where as soon as you touch away from the half
screen FlickType keyboard, we would immediately commit all changes to the
textfield. But all this is opening a whole world of possible issues so for
now we'll stick with the full screen mode until more things are in place and
the full screen mode is more mature.

On having some common symbols and perhaps numbers above the letters, this is
definitely something I'm considering and may add soon.

On shaking to perform an action: I'd like to first exhaust all possible
touch based gestures but it's an interesting one for less common actions.

On a gesture for new line: this could be a two finger flick down, but you
might have noticed that we so far have not assigned the two finger up or
down to any action. This is because we might want those two complementary
gestures to perform something that is more of a cycling option, such as
changing between letters symbols and emoji, or even something else entirely.
Assigning one direction, down, to a new line might make it confusing when
the opposite gesture does something entirely different. We are, however,
exploring possible gestures to directly enter a new line, including some
flick and hold gestures, and I'm still open to using the two finger flick
down for that if we don't have another use for that gesture.

Kosta



--
Muhammad Salman Haider
(765) 586-6840


Re: Build 69

 

Chuck: after dismissing and then returning to edit, the cursor should be where you expect it to be - if it isn't then that's a bug that will be fixed. There is another known issue when you go back to edit something and not being able to move the cursor past the current sentence boundary, but this issue is the same regardless of whether you previously dismissed the keyboard or switched to the iOS one, and could also be addressed in the future although it's not trivial.

Two finger tap and hold to switch to iOS is probably at the top of my list of gestures for that action.

Programmatically triggering the action button to send / search / go would be super nice, but unfortunately it's not possible today. iOS seems to have a very deliberate separation of concerns between the keyboard and the app, and being able to hit any application buttons rests solely on the app side, at least for 3rd-party developers. But hey, you never know. iOS 12 is right around the corner, and I can imagine that the above architectural decision made many years ago might be reconsidered at some point.

On a non-fullscreen version of the keyboard: this is probably doable, but currently presents many challenges due to the system VoiceOver announcements interfering with the FlickType announcements. You might remember that from the first builds of the manual typing. This is not the case when the keyboard is fullscreen, simply because in that case FlickType does not change the contents of the underlying textfield until you dismiss it or switch to the next keyboard, so there are no system VoiceOver announcements to worry about. And we can't make FlickType only cover part of the screen with this workaround behavior, because then you'd notice that the text in the textfield is empty or entirely different from what FlickType is reporting, until you dismiss it or switch to the next keyboard. If you are willing to disable your VoiceOver word typing feedback, this could work, but I think most people would rather not have to change their VoiceOver settings. Perhaps when manual mode is fully developed we can revisit that, since you'd very rarely need to use the iOS keyboard in that case, and hence you might be ok with changing the typing feedback. There's also another possible workaround here, where as soon as you touch away from the half screen FlickType keyboard, we would immediately commit all changes to the textfield. But all this is opening a whole world of possible issues so for now we'll stick with the full screen mode until more things are in place and the full screen mode is more mature.

On having some common symbols and perhaps numbers above the letters, this is definitely something I'm considering and may add soon.

On shaking to perform an action: I'd like to first exhaust all possible touch based gestures but it's an interesting one for less common actions.

On a gesture for new line: this could be a two finger flick down, but you might have noticed that we so far have not assigned the two finger up or down to any action. This is because we might want those two complementary gestures to perform something that is more of a cycling option, such as changing between letters symbols and emoji, or even something else entirely. Assigning one direction, down, to a new line might make it confusing when the opposite gesture does something entirely different. We are, however, exploring possible gestures to directly enter a new line, including some flick and hold gestures, and I'm still open to using the two finger flick down for that if we don't have another use for that gesture.

Kosta


This may be a good time to start a pole.

Chuck Dean
 

Hello everyone,

this may be a good time to start a poll to see how many of us would like to see a half screen option. Does any one know how to set one up?


Build 69. Three finger swipe down problem.

Chuck Dean
 

Hi Kosta, my typing is getting repeated after returning to the keyboard after a three finger swipe down, and I can not control where the cursor will start if I add text.

This is one of the reason I would like to see the half screen keyboard. Am I right in thinking a I half screen keyboard would allow me to move the cursor with the rotor?

I tried to move the cursor with the two and three finger swipes left and right but the cursor didn't end up where I thought it should be.


Chuck


Re: Build 69

Andrew McKay
 

I will say that I do love the predicttive text IOS gives. I find that it helps me type so much faster to use it. Perhaps it might be negated by using Flicktype.  I really do hope for a half screen option soon though too.

 

Andrew

 

From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Dean
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 12:13 PM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69

 

 

Hello, I also never used the predictions at the top bro. I can’t read them anyways, I’d have to go under my CCTV in order to see what was up there.

 

Chuck


On May 20, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...> wrote:

Hey Kosta, 

 

the other thing I miss from the FlickType app typing experience is the symbols short cuts above the keyboard. This would be great to have these in place instead of a predictions row. I personally don't use the iOS predictions unless I don't know how to spell a word. I personally feel the closer you can get to the functionality of the FlickType keyboard app the better off the keyboard will be. I however would love to see a half screen option in the future. 

 

Ed 


On May 20, 2018, at 9:47 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

 

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

 

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

 

Kosta

 


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 

😎 

Hi Kosta, 

 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.

 

Chuck


On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

 

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

 

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

 

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

 

Happy to hear your thoughts,

Kosta

 


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

 

Hi Macky,

 

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

 

Dave

 

 


On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

 

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

 

Dave

 

 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

 

This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.

 

Chuck


On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

 

Kind Regards,

 

George Cham

 

 


From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69

 

I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Re: Build 69

Chuck Dean
 


Hello, I also never used the predictions at the top bro. I can’t read them anyways, I’d have to go under my CCTV in order to see what was up there.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...> wrote:

Hey Kosta, 

the other thing I miss from the FlickType app typing experience is the symbols short cuts above the keyboard. This would be great to have these in place instead of a predictions row. I personally don't use the iOS predictions unless I don't know how to spell a word. I personally feel the closer you can get to the functionality of the FlickType keyboard app the better off the keyboard will be. I however would love to see a half screen option in the future. 

Ed 


On May 20, 2018, at 9:47 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Paul Sutton
 

Hi everyone, just had a thought. How about a shake of your iPhone. . This could either be used to switch keyboards or to dismiss FlickType. 
Just a thought anyway, 
Paul.


On 20 May 2018, at 16:47, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Ed Worrell
 

Hey Kosta, 

the other thing I miss from the FlickType app typing experience is the symbols short cuts above the keyboard. This would be great to have these in place instead of a predictions row. I personally don't use the iOS predictions unless I don't know how to spell a word. I personally feel the closer you can get to the functionality of the FlickType keyboard app the better off the keyboard will be. I however would love to see a half screen option in the future. 

Ed 


On May 20, 2018, at 9:47 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

 

Macky, you are correct in that when comparing the last couple of builds, the magic tap to switch modes can be faster than the long tap, assuming you can perform the magic tap faster than the current tap and hold delay, which I think you and most people probably can. 

However, when the two modes eventually blend into one, the long tap delay will be so short that it should be indistinguishable from when you are already in the touch typing mode. In fact, it’s reducing the tap and hold delay that will make the two modes feel like they’ve blended into one. So at that point it should be objectively better to not have to do any other gesture such as the magic tap, before starting to explore the keyboard. You’ll always go straight into exploring, or just quickly tap if you want to be flick typing and not get character feedback. 

Accomplishing that means being able to support all gestures at the same time without accidentally triggering a gesture you didn’t mean, so it’s a bit of a challenge, but I think it’s possible. 

Kosta 

On May 20, 2018, at 08:34, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

Hi Dave. I hear what you're saying regarding typing one handed. I just preferred how quickly the transition between the two modes was with the two finger double tap initially in the previous build, changing with the tap and hold seems slower to me and even with tap, hold and slide to find the first letter required it doesn't seem as natural to me. Again though, its personal preference. One thing I think we are all agreed on so far is the use of a gesture or automatic return to flick mode as Kosta has mentioned instead of the button. Its great to be able to try all these options though and find what solution works for most people. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 15:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Chuck Dean
 

So far, my only reason to go to the iOS keyboard is for text replacement via shortcuts. I use these a lot and I find them helpful when inserting frequently used emoji. Hearing that text replacement will soon be available is OK👌 and makes me 😎 .


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 8:56 AM, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

 Hi Kosta, 

as you may have noticed, after I reviewed my text with the three finger swipe down, I returned to type some more. The cursor moved to the top, and my last sentence was repeated. 

I replicated this problem while trying to reply, and I am now trying to figure out what is happening. 



Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 8:47 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Ed Worrell
 


Hey Kosta, sorry I always forget about the needing to dismiss FlickType to switch to the default iOS keyboard. I am using an iPhone X and have a dedicated keyboard button. Is there anyway to make the switch to iOS keyboard a two finger tap and hold? That's true I do remember reading something about the magic tap gesture needing to be utilized as a short cut for and action that could take more steps with VoiceOver. 

 I would love to see a gesture for activating the enter key, perhaps a two finger swipe down... I know the functionality is probably coming, but the enter key could activate the search function in a search field. This would be great. This could honestly make FlickType my daily driver. Great job with the keyboard so far. I can't wait to see what you come up with next. 

Ed


On May 20, 2018, at 9:47 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Chuck Dean
 

 Hi Kosta, 

as you may have noticed, after I reviewed my text with the three finger swipe down, I returned to type some more. The cursor moved to the top, and my last sentence was repeated. 

I replicated this problem while trying to reply, and I am now trying to figure out what is happening. 



Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 8:47 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

 

Hi Ed,

What you propose sounds good. I’d probably still add a numbers and symbols button on the main layout so that people who don’t know about the magic tap gesture can still switch to numbers and symbols in an intuitive way, even if it’s slower. After all, I believe the magic tap in iOS is only meant to be a shortcut to trigger an action that can also be performed in a traditional way, so I think we should maintain that principle here too.

Regardless, reassigning the magic tap to the above does mean that there will need to be another gesture to switch to the iOS keyboard, which does bring me to my following point: like Chuck just wrote, if what you’re looking to do is review your text and possibly send it, you can always do that by dismissing the keyboard entirely rather than switching to the iOS one. This way you can also more easily resume typing in flicktype by simply double tapping on the text field again. In fact, I’d love to know more about the most common use cases that absolutely require you to switch to the iOS keyboard. The one case that flicktype might never be able to cover is dictation, unless Apple eventually allows 3rd party keyboards to access the microphone. Another case right now is text replacement shortcuts, but these will be soon available in FlickType as well. Same goes for emoji. The standard iOS predictions above the keyboard are also not currently available in FlickType, and I’d love to know if and how much people use those. And again, to review the text using the traditional voiceover methods you can simply dismiss FlickType altogether by flicking down with 3 fingers. 

Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 08:26, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Macster
 

Hi Dave. I hear what you're saying regarding typing one handed. I just preferred how quickly the transition between the two modes was with the two finger double tap initially in the previous build, changing with the tap and hold seems slower to me and even with tap, hold and slide to find the first letter required it doesn't seem as natural to me. Again though, its personal preference. One thing I think we are all agreed on so far is the use of a gesture or automatic return to flick mode as Kosta has mentioned instead of the button. Its great to be able to try all these options though and find what solution works for most people. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 15:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Chuck Dean
 

This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience. Btw I discovered the three finger swipe down to dismiss the keyboard works fantastic to review what I had just typed... I just have to remember that it is available. 
😎 
Hi Kosta, 

personally I think the permanent typing mode with the flick right to exit would work best for me. Most of my use of manual entry is for caps and numbers. 

The tap and hold to enter symbols works great for me, and I was against it at first. This process takes a lot of trial and error, and I admire your patience.


Chuck

On May 20, 2018, at 7:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Ed Worrell
 

Hey kasta, 

what if manual typing would exit after every character. You could use the two finger double tap to switch between symbols, numbers and back to the normal typing method? This makes the most sense to me, and it almost acts the same way as the keyboard app. 

Ed 


On May 20, 2018, at 8:44 AM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

 

I am indeed working towards making the two styles seamless. The key for that is seamless entry into, as well as seamless exit out of touch typing. Seamless entry can be achieved with what I think is the most intuitive gesture of holding down your finger to explore, since you’ll have to do that anyway to select your desired character. 

For seamless exit, there are two options at the top of my list:

One is making the touch typing entry be temporary, for a single character only, so as soon as you release your finger your are back into flick typing. This is similar to the app, but also if you release on the numbers and symbols key you’d remain in touch typing mode in the numbers and symbols layout, returning back to flick typing as soon as you enter a single character. Some downsides with this are: First, you can’t easily type multiple numbers and symbols in one go. To type a phone number for example, you’d have to tap, hold, and release on the numbers button, before being able to select each and every digit of the phone number. Second downside is that the touch typing gestures that only affect one character at a time, for example cursor move by character or changing the case of a character, would not be available since you’d always be in flick typing mode unless you are holding your finger down to explore. There are some workarounds for this though: one is to contextually bring those character gestures in flick typing mode, where the result of the exact same flick gesture would depend on whether you’ve last typed a single character or an entire word. This also would be similar to the app, where for example flick left to delete may delete a character. The other workaround is to take advantage of the fact that releasing on the numbers button leaves you in the touch typing mode without holding down anything anymore, so those character gestures could be performed there. 

The other seamless exit option is indeed the flick right, or space key, or both. You very likely will be doing that anyway, and you can always keep touch typing the next word too if you want. And until you exit by flicking right, you can perform all the character gestures too. I call this the permanent touch typing mode, as opposed to temporary above. Chanelle, you mentioned that this wouldn’t work for you because you use touch typing to enter a lot of symbols, can you please elaborate, perhaps with some examples?

A hybrid approach could involve the first temporary option where you always return back to flick typing after a single character, unless you go to numbers and symbols. And if you do go to numbers and symbols, you could stay there permanently until a flick right.  

I should also note that there are plenty more details to figure out here, as well as many other ways to achieve the desired features. Also the more the two styles blend into each other, the more it makes sense to call them something else, like word mode vs character mode. 

Happy to hear your thoughts,
Kosta


On May 20, 2018, at 07:02, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

David Nason
 


Hi Macky,

the advantage though of the tap and hold to switch is that you can switch to manual and slide to the key you want, all in one fluid motion, making it much like the experience of manual typing in the main app. This is a huge step forward in my own opinion. 

For me, the interesting question is in finding the best way to get back to the flick mode again. And perhaps Benny is onto an idea that can be developed. 

Personally I would also like a one finger gesture to dismiss the keyboard, as I like to operate the phone one handed, using my thumb, as much as possible. 

That's my thoughts anyway. As you say, its interesting to read the different preferences in the group. 

Dave




On 20 May 2018, at 14:45, Macster <alan.macdonald1@...> wrote:

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
>
>
> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
>>
>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: Build 69

Macster
 

I think there is a split in the camp here, but I preferred the double tap gesture to enable the touch typing mode and the press and hold gesture to return to the iOS keyboard. My reasoning for this is the double tap is quicker and I invariably would be changing between flick and touch much more than flick and iOS. It just seemed more responsive to me that way and it also eliminated the need to feel around for the dedicated change back to flick typing button at the bottom. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, just personal preference. Macky 


On 20 May 2018, at 09:55, David Nason <dnason@...> wrote:

I'm a little on the fence about the choice of gestures. I do definitely prefer the tap and hold to the magic tap, but the fact that you can't use the same gesture to go back from the touch typing mode to the flick mode is arguably a problem. My brain would prefer if I could use the same gesture to go both ways.

I really like what you've done in this build though, in that I can tap and hold, and navigate to the key I want, all in one go. Superb. 

I too like the idea of a half screen option. But I also see that this could be difficult for some users. Many people cannot see enough to be as targeted as others in there taps, so the full screen keyboard allows them much more ability to type successfully. So if implemented, it would have to be optional. The same fact is true for the discussion yesterday about typing accuracy. Of course user training and practice is necessary, but its easier for those of us who have some usable sight to be accurate than those who don't. So lets not dismiss the need to keep that conversation in mind.

Dave
 


On 20 May 2018, at 03:08, Chuck Dean <cadean329@...> wrote:


This is another reason for the half screen keyboard. If the top half is the iOS screen, we could use the rotor to edit text and to change the cursor position; leaving the FlickType area for the same gestures as the app's keyboard.


Chuck

On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, George Cham <George.cham@...> wrote:

If thats the case , after flicking right for space, can we have a flick gesture down for symbles  and numbers ?

Kind Regards,

George Cham



From: alpha@flicktype.groups.io <alpha@flicktype.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Worrell <ed.worrell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:57:33 AM
To: alpha@flicktype.groups.io
Subject: Re: [FlickType-alpha] Build 69
 
I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.

Ed
I believe at some point there will be no difference between the modes. I think the short cuts are simply there to return to the gesture keyboard at this point and time. I think we will have the same manual typing as the keyboard in the future.
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:02 PM, Benny Barber <rebelben@...> wrote:
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> I prefer the magic tap to return to the iOS keyboard and tap and hold for direct typing. Thanks.
>
> Benny
>
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:16 PM, FlickType <hello@...> wrote:
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>> - Allow the same long press gesture that triggers Touch Typing to continue the exploration, so you don't have to start a second press every time.
>> - Fix shift sometimes not being in the correct state upon entering Touch Typing mode.
>>
>> Please continue providing as much feedback as possible, thank you all for being so awesome!
>>
>> - Kosta
>>
>>
>>
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